For this
posting, I want you to imagine that you are privileged
to have a conversation with either Perl, Rose, or Tierney and Pearson, the authors we are reading
for this week's work. What questions might you ask them and how would you
interact with them? What aspects of their research lines up most closely to your
own experiences?
For example, you might note that your experiences line up closely with one of
the subjects that Perl studied. You might also look at particular aspects of the
arguments put forth in one or more of these texts to see how these claims have held up
after thirty years has passed. (These article were published in the early 1980's- what does more current research about writing processes say?) The important thing to consider is this: your
posting should demonstrate critical engagement with at least one of the texts.
It is not sufficient to simply rehash the arguments presented, but you should
focus on analyzing specific parts of an argument or specific methods of the
study to reveal something interesting.
Are there interdisciplinary ways of seeing some of the issues Rose and Perl
discuss in their readings?
How you deliver this posting is up to you, but your posting should demonstrate both synthesis and analysis of the readings.
The readings associated with this assignment are on pages: 170-215 and 236-250.
If I had a conversation with Sondra Perl, I would ask her about how the past two to three decades have made an impact on how teachers teach writing and how their methods have improved. I would also ask her about how the teaching back then still relates to the teaching today and I would talk to her about how students today can relate to past ones with what I am about to point out.
ReplyDeleteIn her case study, Perl focused on unskilled college writers. Among them was a young man named Tony. I can relate in many ways to his writing process because I also stop myself a lot as I write. I find myself reading the instructions repetitively making sure that I don’t go off topic and that I am writing what is being asked of. I will usually write a few words, pause and reread what I write, edit them if I have to, think of what else I am going to include in the sentence, and make sure that I am choosing the right words. It’s a continuous process that I have been accustomed to just like Tony had. This clearly proves that a modern day student can still relate to a student from almost thirty years ago.
Students from back then can also relate to modern students with the how they were taught. One of the difficulties I have faced since I got to college is paying more attention to content than the structure of writing. I’ve been conditioned to write the ‘right’ way and my past teachers never put an emphasis on anything else. I have always known that the ideas I put into my essays are important but I have always focused on my introduction, transitions, and the structure and length of my paragraphs. It is because of this that I sometimes fail to support my ideas and dig in deeper to what I am trying to say.
Perl argued that this was a problem back then. She wrote that too much time in class was devoted to the rules of writing and that students who were too concerned with these rules would often lack the ability to focus on composing and discovering new ideas and meanings. She argued that teachers needed to identify the student’s writing processes in order to help them advance in their writing and not focus so much on writing instructions.
I would say that this was one of Tony’s problems. He tried to edit everything he wanted to write so much that he would fail to put down more ideas in his writing. Even after rereading what he wrote and fixing it there would still be a lot missing in his finished product. This showed me that past students like him have shared the same difficulties as a students like me.
Students today need teachers who encourage them to think outside of the box in order to deliver their points in more profound ways. We will only be able to improve our writing if we stop focusing on how the writing should be set up and start giving more importance to developing ideas and composing them. This without a doubt will be able to transform a student’s writing process and get rid of their “unskilled college writer” label.
Part 1:
ReplyDeleteIf I were ever privileged to have a conversation with Mike Rose, there would be a vast multitude of things I would talk to him about. The way that I would interact with him would be with the utmost respect and gratitude because after all he has accomplished in his distinguished career, he more than deserves that respect. There are many things that I would and could ask him but at the same time I don’t want to overwhelm him, so I would ask him, of all of the facets of writing, why did he choose to try to understand the way writers think and to help them get over the dreaded “writer’s block”? Another thing I would ask him would be why himself as well as other cognitive analysts say “the rhetorical situation and context – and assumed the situation had nothing to do with the rules by which brains process information and thus generate writing (Rose, pg.236)”. I would applaud him for his insight that cultural and school rules may need more critique and studying than they currently do at this time. Finally I would ask him in the last 30+ years, how have the concepts he researched in his earlier days have adapted to the way that we operate in society in todays world. In all honesty, I would be honored to talk to Mike Rose and I would ask him my fair share of questions, but most importantly I would just listen to all he has to say, I would ask him to tell me the story of how he went from an ordinary person to the prominent literary genius that he is today and see if he could help me “think outside of the box” when it came to my own writing strategies.
Mike Rose talks about a young woman named Ruth who was an undergraduate at UCLA who was suffering from the dreaded writer’s block. She was selected from a vide variety of students from “ lower-middle-class to upper-middle-class backgrounds and high schools, third world and Caucasian origins, biology to fine arts majors, C+ to A- grade point averages, enthusiastic to blasé attitudes toward school (Rose, pg.237)”. Rose thoroughly explains how Ruth struggles to put together all of her ideas, constantly doubts whether her writing is good enough, and worries about meeting her deadlines with a masterful piece of writing. Those are the same exact struggles that I deal with when I have to write papers for class.
Personally for me, I always struggle to find a way to start my writings, which is similar to what Rose explains about Ruth in the case study. My biggest struggle is the whole “GRAB THE AUDIENCE’S ATTENTION” when you are writing something, and although this is not applicable in all scenarios, it is important to distinguish your writing from everyone else’s. I feel like it is better to take risks to make yourself stand out and do something amazing than to just sit back low key and do the standard idea that everyone else does. Rose puts a large emphasis on how important it is to catch the reading audience and for those who struggle with this concept, the help of people like Mike Rose can help us to self-analyze what we are doing wrong in order to help us become proficient in what used to be our greatest weakness.
Part 2:
ReplyDeleteRose puts an emphasis on how by following literary rules and plans, this will help us to become more successful and understanding writers, but as we have learned in before, each culture has their own set of “standards for writing” so depending upon where you originate from that will impact the way that you write. I agree with Rose in that we need to do more investigation into how cultural and school rules impact the way that we write and although there are some outliers for every culture there are still many concepts that are applicable throughout all cultures. In the case study they chose students from a multitude of ethnic backgrounds so that there would not be a bias in the findings, which is a good thing because once you make it to college there are people from all over the world who have each learned certain ways to read and write depending upon where they are from.
Writer’s block is something that can and will affect every single writer at some point in his or her lifetime, so the best thing to do is to have a plan that you can follow as a guideline to help you know what to do when you get stuck. “ Mike Rose’s “plan” is an open system which is thinking that is characterized by an “adventurous exploration of multiple alternatives with strategies that allow redirection once ‘dead ends’ are encountered” (Rose, pg.246)”. He explains that the best plan is to have one that is open to change and input from others which is exactly what I have begun to do in my writings. Important facets to being a successful writer that Rose explains are to be open and supportive of feedback from your peers and to avoid having too many rules that you follow when you are writing. If we get too caught up in the structure of writing, then we will begin to lose the flow of the piece that will harm the overall quality of the piece.
The way that Mike Rose’s philosophies to writing are still very prominent and applicable to the way we write today and the way he looks at writing from an analytical yet cognitive perspective enables him to help others around him to be successful writers just as he is. The concepts that he introduced decades ago still do apply to the way we compose our writings today and with the help of our teachers and those around us it will help us as students to get over the hated “writer’s block” and become successful, analytical, and well-groomed writer
If I had the chance to have a conversation with Tierney and Pearson it would be a great honor. These men did absolutely fantastic research regarding the connection between reading and writing as a composing process. They changed the views of many people who believed that good reading was just intended to find the main idea while reading at a fast pace. When in reality, a good reader will stop and take the time to re-read and analyze a text. As stated in the article they should plan, draft, align, revise, and monitor. These processes should be followed by a writer too. If both the reader and the writer think in this way and try to get inside each others heads, then that is the best way for them to make a connection. If I am reading something I should be able to understand where the author was coming from and be thinking from his/her perspective. If I cannot it is as much my fault as it is the writers. Reading and writing go hand in hand, so if one end of the connection is off then it won't work.
ReplyDeleteWhen reading there are many factors that are going to affect how you interpret the text. It could stem from the way you were brought up, personal experiences, morals, or even your mood at the time. This goes the same for the writer. So being on the same page so you do not experience this disconnect is a challenging process. This is why every angle of the text should be analyzed by both sides. The classic saying of "putting yourself in someone else's shoes" is the best way to explain it. Lets face it a reader and a writer are never going to be the same, they are going to have different thoughts or opinions. That's why it is up to them to change their mindset and try to understand how this reader is going to interpret the information or what point the author is trying to make and why.
There would be a couple questions that I would definitely like to ask Tierney and Pearson. The first would be if they discovered how these behaviors show up in different context. Would there be some works written that are much easier to understand by others and why would that be? Maybe because a bigger majority of people are in the same situation, or role, and can relate to the topic. Another important question would be if they found a pattern of interaction in these behaviors throughout moments in the reading and writing experience. As the text develops would it be harder for somebody that places them self in a role to follow the author? How much would a lack of understanding of the topic really affect a reader down the line in a book? If you compared a reader with prior knowledge to a reader without much knowledge on the subject, how much more would they understand the author?
The research conducted by Tierney and Pearson is still valuable and useful to this day. Readers and writer can better understand each other and get the most out of their literacy by using the tactics stated in the article. Using the plan, draft, align, revise and monitor strategy will always help you to better understand what you are reading, or if you are a writer, help you reach the reader better and get your point across. Like they stated at the end of the article additional research still needs to be conducted, and if the answers are found to those questions it would be very beneficial to their study.
If I could have a conversation with any of the authors we learned about this week, it would be Rose. I found his study to be the most relatable to me as well as something I go through on a day to day basis. I also seem to have writing blocks when faced with an essay to write. I stress about the introductory paragraph as well as following the rules that have been imprinted in my brain throughout my whole academic career. Because of this, I found this study very interesting. When talking to Rose, I would express my past experiences in writing. I would also tell him how his study has helped me get past these writing blocks. I think he provided a wide array of information with students who all had a specific writing structure. I would ask him as to why he was so intrigued by the topic. I would want to know his main purpose for conducting his study and if it has helped him in his career.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with his concept of rules and plans. Growing up my parents have always given me rules. When I got to college there was no rules. This left me feeling distraught. I agree with his view that rules are very different from plans. I will use his concept of algorithms versus heuristics to improve my writing skills. In order to avoid writing blocks, I will look at the rules in a more heuristic way. Looking at things in a more general way will give me more space to be creative, hopefully preventing writing blocks. Ruth is a prime example of someone who follows rules in an algorithmic way. She gets stuck on rules that have been always pushed upon her. This leaves her with little information and no time left to express her ideas.
I think Rose’s overall point of this study was to prove a point. The education system puts such strict rules on how to write and this diminishes the creativity of students. Students are so caught up with following the rules, that they cannot truly express their thoughts. I think he was aiming for his audience to be teachers as well as students who encounter writing blocks. I, being part of this audience, found this study very helpful. I think he accomplished this goal very well and I believe it could change teachers way of constructing writing rules. He truly analyzed the background of these students who experience these writing difficulties.
Tierney and Pearson have done many experiments and they have found out that reading and writing is an act of composing. If I had the chance to question Pearson and Tierney I would ask multiple questions such as, how did you come up with this idea? What can I do to improve my process? If they were willing to help me I would ask them if they could analyze my writing and reading process and denote my issues so that I could better my process in general.
ReplyDeleteIn my personal experiences I have had trouble planning, and drafting my writing and reading. As result of my own drawn hypothesis while reading, I would misinterpret a book. One example involves me reading a poem in my high school English class, while reading I developed an idea that the poem was negative. After my teacher explained to us that the poem was talking about love and romance it confused me. I asked myself how could I miss the romance? Why did I think the whole poem was negative? Tierney and Pearson explained that once a reader develops an idea they will carry that idea throughout the piece. That's essentially how I made sense of the poem. I would ask Pearson and Tierney what other methods could I use to make sense of the text. I also struggle to plan my writing when I am writing anything. There is a point where I write multiple sentences and stare at the laptop screen. Then I struggle to revise that one sentence to fit my needs. They used an example of a fourth grade writer who changed his goal of his paper throughout his thought process. How would I be able to decide what it is I want to write?
Though they explained the planning, drafting, aligning, revising, and monitoring process in the 1980's. I believe that their process still occurs today. Many people such as myself continue to struggle with planning, revising, and even drafting writing or reading.
If I were ever honored with the great opportunity of speaking with Mike Rose, I would begin our conversation by congratulating him on his successful analysis of what many know to be the “writers block”. I would then proceed with asking a variety of questions about his thoughts on his own research and findings, some of which would include: Do you feel that your research was fully adequate in discovering why writers develop these blocks? Are there any additions you would like to make to your research that you have noticed over the last 30 years? Did you have periods during your life in which you experienced writer’s blocks? Are you continually researching into this topic of “writing blocks” or have you moved onto other topics related to writing? I am positive there are many more I could ask but I’d keep it at that as to not waste his time.
ReplyDeleteMoving on in the conversation, I would share with Rose my personal experiences with writing and the various struggles that I faced along the way; some of which are closely relatable to the five “Blocker” subjects that he researched. Ruth and Laurel are the two that similarly connected to my personal writing difficulties in that, they both presented with writing blocks as a result of the impression that they HAD to have a catchy introduction and/or three body paragraphs, each outlining a different idea. In middle school and the beginning of high school the same “rules” that held back Ruth and Laurel in thinking, I fell slave to; proving to be detrimental to my development as a writer. I was unable to produce sufficient papers due to these mental constrains that I was burdened with by my teachers; at this point I without a doubt fell under the category of “Blocker”, and would cause me trouble in writing for years to come. I truly believe that a difference in teaching style would have sped up the process of my becoming a more competent writer.
In my personal situation I was able to overcome these writing “Rules” placed on me as I came to realize that they were simply there for general structure and not necessarily required for a well-written piece. This transition for me occurred slowly but surly; it occurred around the time I was a junior in high school and has only improved since attending college.
But enough about me; this brings me to my final question that I would ask Mr. Rose before leaving, which is: Do you, with your expert background on the subject, believe that these “Rules” such as the 5 paragraph essay and catchy intros should be taught more loosely by teachers? Do you think that the number of students with writing blocks would decrease?
If I could have a conversation with either Perl, Rose, Tierney and Pearson, I would definitely choose Sondra Perl to have it with. I chose her to have a conversation with because I found her article the most interesting out of all of the ones we have read so far. I also chose it because it raised many questions in my mind while I read it. The first question I would ask her is to describe how teaching was when she learned about writing and whether or not she enjoyed it. I would also ask her if the teaching today in schools and universities correlates to anything that she went through growing up while she was learning about reading and writing.
ReplyDeletePerl’s article focused on unskilled writers in college. One of the individual’s name was Tony and he lacked proper writing skills. The main thing that Tony did wrong was that he would have a good flow of information in his paragraph, then check himself, and finally go back and change everything he had written. This obviously is not a good writing skill and definitely slowed him down while he tried to complete his work. Perl called this the ‘back and forth’ method because he would take one step forward and two steps back. This is something that I sometimes do when I am writing a paper of my own. I do sometimes stress about what I have previously written in the earlier paragraphs and often find myself going back to page one of my paper to start correcting things which is not the best idea. I need to start writing out my entire paper and then once I am finished with it, then I should go back and proofread my work. The way I relate to Tony certainly shows that students today do relate to students thirty years ago in the way that they write.
Students thirty years ago can also relate to modern students in the way that they were educated. The main similarity that these two kinds of students have are the fact that teaching has hardly changed over time. Throughout my years of elementary, middle and high school, I was only taught to write in one specific way. Whether it be make sure to have a five paragraph essay or even if it was just make sure that you add as much detail as possible. The main problem with this kind of teaching is that we never really learned anything about structure of writing. For my entire life I thought I was writing essays the proper way, but those thoughts quickly changed after my first week in my English class in college. I am extremely glad that I have had the opportunity to learn about different writing strategies and skills early in my college career because I know that they will be beneficial for me in my near future. In my opinion, I believe that teachers make the difference. Students today need teachers who don’t just teach directly from the book but allow their students to think anyway they would like to.
If I were privileged to interact with any of the authors, I would choose Tierney and Pearson for two reasons. I would choose Tierney and Pearson because I found the topic of a composing model of reading to be very interesting and secondly I would not only have the honor of talking to one great author but I would be able to interact with two highly accomplished authors. I think the first thing I would ask would be, how did they first decide to link reading and writing as “essentially similar processes of meaning construction”(Wardle, downs,175). I have generally always thought of reading and writing to be polar opposite tasks, as many other people would agree. One of the things that I enjoyed about reading their piece was that as I read it, I realized that I was actually doing some of the very same things that were being explained. It was also very interesting to me that at the start of the reading I was skeptical but by he end, I not only thought they made a strong point, I agreed with them one hundred percent.
ReplyDeleteIn previous experiences I have been exactly like the reader of psychology today who had picked up the issue and initially picked up the article with the intention of glancing over the article but became increasingly interested in the authors perspective and ideas. There have been many times that I have began reading a book that I was forced to read and thought I would hate the book because the title was silly and the cover didn’t catch my eye but to my surprise I ended up liking it. There are countless times that my original intentions ended up being changed do to an engaging writer who got me interested in their perspective on the topic. The second thing I would ask is how they feel this processes of reading to construct meaning will hold up over time as our society changes and grows.
Just in the past few decades technology has grown exponentially and more and more people are moving away from paper books and into e-books. I would like to pick the brains of these two authors to see how they feel e-books are affecting young readers and if they feel e-books are more advantageous or hurtful to reading development. I would also like to see if they feel that e-books hamper a reader’s process of constructing meaning. The next thing I would like to explore with the authors is there thought of typing. I personally feel that I get more writers block, and find my ideas are less connected when I type apposed to when I write. I would just like to see if Tierney and Pearson feel that typing hampers the writer in their attempt to write a piece. The last thing I would do is question two claims made by the authors that I do not completely agree with. In the text, Pearson states that readers don’t find meaning in the text, the texts guide the readers to create meaning.” If a text is supposed to be able to guide a reader to the meaning, why is it that different readers of the same piece may have completely different responses or thoughts about it? How, if the texts are supposed to lead the readers to meaning is it that two readers can derive polar opposite conclusions form the same text? For example in the piece it gives an example of Doris Lessing who tells of responses that she has received to her book with different people telling of completely different themes in the novel. If the novel was supposed to lead the readers to find meaning, how is it that all of the readers found different meanings from the exact same text? The second thing I would focus on is just how related reading and writing actually are. In the piece written by Tierney and Pearson, they tried to explain the relationship of reading and writing but I felt that many of the steps they phases they talked about did not apply to both reading and writing so I would ask them to elaborate more on the different phases of constructing meaning.
Part 2
ReplyDeleteMike Rose raises the issue of how writing papers with rigid rules many times leads to writers block or makes the act of adjusting to different writing styles an arduous task. When we write there are certain rules we have either been taught and is a way in which we perceive certain styles of writing to be written. Though these ideas might be intended to help many times they can lead to bad effects. The consequences could be writers block or an outcome of writing that lacks focus and that might possibly be repetitive. Rose adds depth to support of this argument by applying examples of students who when writing experienced either writers blocked or bad writing. Rose then compared these students to others who experienced no writing block and discusses how students with no writing block approached writing differently. Rose describes the act of writing as a type of problem solving. The fact is in writing there are an abounding number of ways to approach given assignments, and writing many times is finding the right way to approach a topic, much like how we solve a problem. The way we approach a given problem is a crucial part of being able to find a solution.
If I was able to talk to Rose one of the questions I would ask him is how based off your understanding should people go about determining the quality of advice they receive for writing? How can we further our research on writers block and what we can do about it? Should we change the way teach students how to write? Rose has been able to distinguish differences between the writers who had block and the ones who didn’t. One of the reasons writers get writers block is because of affective or emotional realm-anxiety. We all have either seen someone with anxiety or have experienced it before. The state of being anxious is thought stopping to varying degrees and for some may lead to getting no words on paper. Many times much of the anxiety is there because we might feel we will not meet the requirements of what we think a good paper needs to incorporate. For example Rose uses Ruth a student (also a blocker – one who has writer block) who has been told many times that for an essay to be considered good it must grab the readers attention immediately. I can relate to this because when I was in middle school and even some in high school I was always taught to have a hook at the start of my essay to grab the reader’s attention. When sticking to this approach on timed essay tests I was always coming up with ideas on how to start my hook, that when I had gone to writing body paragraphs I had very little time to write them. It caused a lot of anxiety when writing my essays from thinking I had to hook readers in and felt many times I could not hook them in. When Ruth wrote her essays, she would always be blocked when writing her essay because of this idea she believed she had to incorporate into her writing. This is an example of how a concept that might not necessarily be true can cause anxiety and attribute to writers block.
This is not to say that writers who do not have writer block when writing do not preconceptions of how an essay should be written. Rose makes that point very clear, however, he says there ideas are “expressed less absolutely.” To give an example of one of the thoughts when writing that those writers use is “try to keep the audience in mind.” With this type of information in mind one can think about the audience and what they want to hear. Compared to the information Ruth used this does not force you to come up with something amazing in one point but it helps you think about how you can develop an overall piece that the audience can take from. There is a clear difference on how the approach you take to writing affects how effectively you can write and is not as much based off talent as one might often think.
Roses concept still does apply to today’s writing because the problem of writers block still does exist. The information about starting off your essay by trying capture the reader’s attention is still taught by teachers today. By looking at Roses argument one can come to maybe analyze or start to becoming aware of how one writes. One might learn that their writing styles and the way they think about writing can be contributing their writer’s block.
ReplyDeleteI would talk to Mike Rose out of any of the authors that we have learned about in the past week. I find his article to most closely relate to me because I do experience “writers block” when writing essay. He came to find out that the five students he studied who experienced writer’s block were all using rules or planning strategies that had been embedded into their heads that may not be compatible with their composing process, therefore hindering their writing rather than improving it. I would ask him if he had ever experienced writers block especially in the article we just read. And if he experienced it how did he overcome it and what set of rules caused his writers block. I would really like to get the meaning behind the article and as to why he chose to write about this topic in the first place. I would also like to talk about with Mr. Rose is the reasoning to why we students are getting writers block. Yes I understand it’s because of the rules they learned but why were they taught these rules. The education system has basically set restrictions on the very students they are trying to better. Maybe they don’t realize what effect they are having but it is something that has to stop.
ReplyDeleteMike Rose talks about a high school student named Ruth. Ruth has writers block when it comes to composing the introductory paragraph. She was taught that a good essay always grabs the reader’s attention immediately. Until you can make your essay do that, there is no need to go on. That is exactly what I learned growing up. Such a huge emphasis was put on that first paragraph that I could never get past it. Once I completed it I was always in a rush to finish the rest of my essay. The hardest part for me was creating some radical idea that would grab the attention of the reader. I don’t know what the reader is interested in. But reading the section on Ruth and the others with the same problem really spoke to me and I am interested how my writing style will better from reading this article.
If I could have a conversation with any of these authors I would choose Sondra Perl. I was able to relate to her research the most, mainly because it had to do with unskilled college writers. I understood her writing and had an interest in her research because it is true that not much research tends to be done on the unskilled. Also she is an educated woman and as a young inspiring professional woman myself it would be an honor to hear her story and ask her questions. I would approach her with respect and really think through with what I would want to ask her. Also I would make sure to do my research before-hand, this way I prevent myself from wasting her time just in case. I would most likely have a set of general questions to ask her and hope to allow the conversation to flow from there.
ReplyDeletePerl’s research is done on several below average college writers, one in particular named Tony. I relate to Tony because we both were born and raised in the United States, and both of us speak English and Spanish but English was our first language. I always wonder if this is what might have set me a bit back in my reading and writing. Learning both languages at a young age is beneficial, however growing up all I knew was my parent’s broken English. I felt like I was finally able to get something out of the research done. It was as if someone was pointing out the flaws in my own writing.
The way Tony edits his paper in advance reminds me of myself when I write. What was fascinating was I never considered it a hindrance in my writing, if anything I thought of it more as the right thing to do. After reading Perl’s writing it made sense that my thought process was being interrupted by always worrying too soon about grammatical errors.
I never considered that how we think while we write affects our writing; I always just focused on getting my thoughts on paper. I notice now that when I’m writing slower than it takes me to think of the words I make more mistakes. I have so many ideas of what I want to write about that I get ahead of myself and make more mistakes. Even now as I am typing I catch myself stopping after ever few sentences to revise my writing and reread it to check if it sounds the way I imagined it. Perl’s writing was more of an eye opener to all the things I was doing incorrectly in my writing. If I could get a chance to talk to Sondra Perl I would take that opportunity to ask her more about what she learned and use my own work as an example, I know I could learn so much from all the research she compiled.
If I were able to have a conversation with Sondra Perl, I would ask her how she thinks what she wrote in 1979 still relates to modern times and current college writers. I will tell her that I feel like her work still applies to current college kids now. I would explain to her that I feel like I closely relate to the student that she used as an example in her paper. One of the main issues he had was that he kept stopping in the middle of his work to make sure that what he had already wrote mad sense. He would try to correct his writing before he even completed it. I find myself doing the same thing. I feel like if I correct on the way it will save me time at the end. But as I have learned from the reading it just interrupts my thoughts and I have trouble really focusing on the actual meaning I am putting into my writing. I would tell her all this as we spoke. I would also talk to her about my favorite section of the reading, which was titled “Writing”. I really liked the first numbered point she made in this section. It talks about to move forward you need to reach back, and have some sense of where one wants to go. Which I really related to, because I find it hard to know where I want to go or more specifically how I want to get there. I would talk to her about how I feel like that is a very wide issue that many writers have. I would then talk to her about how even though her paper was written in the 80’s I still feel like the issue of teachers focusing on more of the rules of writing is still happening today. A lot of college student from back then and even today have trouble with the analytical part of writing. Schools don’t focus on to much of the meaning behind the topic they just focus more how something is written and the form it takes place. I would let Perl know that her work is amazing, especially since it is still applicable today. If I had time at the end of our conversation I would even ask her if she could help me with my writing skills and if she could give me additional tips.
ReplyDeleteIf I was able to have a conversation with Sondra Perl, I would ask her why she chose to do her experiment on unskilled writer. The reason for this question is because even though at the time she did her experiment no other researchers had find it important that they find out why students were unskilled at writing. It was as if they did not think that unskilled writers could provide them with the information they needed to come up with a conclusion on the matter of writers. What made her think differently? How could she be so positive that her experiment would help teachers with unskilled writers when no one else had ever took the time out to research the matter?
ReplyDeleteAnother question I would ask Perl is that would she think that if she did the same experiment today, do she think she would get the same results. Since Perl has done her research, much have changed in the education system. Teacher are taught how to help students become better writers. Plus would her results change if she had done her experiment in a different location? The reason I ask this is because some college professors at certain colleges that calls a certain student an unskilled writer could be considered a skilled writer at a different college. The level of education are different at different colleges so she results might not be as reliable as she taught. As well as if she had took unskilled students of different race, ethnicity, and culture, would that have caused there to be a change in her results. People of different background are taught differently as they grow up especially if they were born in a different country and lived there for a good amount of time.
I would ask her what kind of advice she would give to a student like Tony because I also find myself editing my paper while writing. A lot of student struggles with the fact that they write a paper and think that it is really good to find out that they had a lot of errors in it. How would she help a student that is an unskilled writer and has no faith in themselves when it comes to writing? This usually makes the student not want to write a paper because they believe that it would come out to be horrible any ways.
If I had the privilege to talk to one of these great authors, it would be Mike Rose. It would be an honor to be able to converse with him because having your article featured in a college textbook is a big deal. There would be so much that I would talk about with him. I would interact with him sort of like an interview, asking him questions but later elaborating on them. My first question for him would be in regard to his early literacy experiences. I would ask him if he ever experienced the "writers block" when he would write. Writing, as described in the text, is a problem solving process. The writing problem can be solved through algorithms or heuristics. Writers who experience this block usually use a algorithmic method to write, meaning that that are restraint from a set of rules that forces them to write in a linear, strict structure. I would ask Rose if this ever happened to him and if it did, how did he overcome it. What interested me to want to talk to Rose would be that I myself sometime experience the writer's block and I would definitely tell him about it. Like Ruth, Laurel, and Sylvia, I also have put a lot of weight on making my first paragraph. I sometimes think that if I don't get it right, my whole paper is ruined. Rose, who puts a lot of emphasis on rules and plans, states that the rule of making your first paragraph amazing is preventing the rest of your paper to shine.
ReplyDeleteAnalyzing Rose's statements on algorithms and heuristics got me really thinking about applying those methods to not only writing but also to reading. Maybe there is a "reader's block" that prevents the reader to understand the text or unable to continue. Reading can be just as much as a problem solving behavior as writing which be troublesome if using algorithms. To paraphrase Karl Dunker, using algorithms do not allow a flexible penetration into the nature of the problem. The problem in this case trying to understand what the writer is trying to say. Using heuristics allows read a text and if they have trouble understanding it, they use context clues or other approaches to understanding the text. Also, since heuristics can be described as vague or discombobulated rules, readers can use this rule to understand a text even if it takes them all the way to the end to understand it. Even if it doesn't offer a linear or preferred solution, it gives you a good enough solution anyway. I am not sure how he would respond to my analysis because it may or may not be accurate but I'm sure that he would give me advice on how to improve my writing and analysis abilities.
Assuming I had the honor of holding a conversation with Perl, I would want to inquire how the world of writing has changed since she wrote “The Composing Processes of Unskilled College Writers”. I would probably start off by asking if there have been any similar tests on unskilled college writers done since she wrote the essay about her findings. I would want to know if she has noticed any significant changes in the way teachers teach their students after reading her findings. I would also ask if she would still use the same method she used before to analyze the writing process of students or if she would try a different method. If she would want to try a different method I would ask why and what it was about this new method that would be superior to the one she used in the study before. I make make sure to compliment her at some point on her decision to do a study unlike anyone else’s performed before because it found new information useful to teachers of all kinds. I would ask if she had any personal reasons for doing a study like this and what gave her the original idea to study unskilled college writers. I would also want to know if modern unskilled college writers have the same troubles as when she wrote her essay or if she thinks things have changed since then. I would ask how well she thinks public schools prepare and teach modern students about writing compared to when she wrote her essay. I feel as though over time teachers prepare us for writing in college less and less as they focus more and more on standardized tests and formats and rules. There were no tests like the FCAT before and teachers had time to teach students what they need to know about writing and not make everyone conform to one way of writing. I feel as though this would make new challenges and that new research should be conducted. This is only my opinion so I would want to know if Perl agrees with me or if she thinks there has been improvement to the writing of students today because of the focus teachers put on the writing for these tests. It would be interesting to hear what Perl has to say about this subject.
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ReplyDeleteIf I had the chance to have a conversation with any one of the authors we read about during this week, I would definitely chose to talk with Sondra Perl. During our conversation one of the questions I will ask her is: What methods would she use to teach average or below average writers to become better writers? Another question I would ask is which method of writing does she think is most important in the writing process? To interact with her, I would explain my experiences with writing and how my teachers taught me to do so. With this conversation I could transition into my similar experience with her test subjects. For example, her subject Tony would often reread a sentence he was working on before finishing that particular sentence. I do this and find that it helps me develop more ideas that helps create a flowing paragraph. I also connect with her statement about how a writer can connect and elaborate on a topic more when that topic is closer to the writer. I find it easier to write when I have experienced a situation related to my given topic. I believe that Perl’s main purpose for composing this article was to educate current teachers on how to create better writers out of their students that are less capable of producing decent works.
ReplyDeletePerl’s claim that “Composing does not occur in a straightforward, linear fashion” can remain true in today’s writing processes because when we write today we pull ideas and thoughts from all over and we often do backwards in our own writing process. No two writing processes are the same. In Mike Rose’s article, he explains that the rule “Always Grab Your Audience” does more hindering than benefiting. This idea has too held up because going from high school to college, this rule no longer applies. People waste more time than they should, trying to grab their readers and this is sometimes still the case today.
Out of all of the authors that we had read for this week, I would definitely interact with Mike Rose. It would be a complete honor to have a conversation with him and ask him different types of questions concerning his study and experiment that he performed. I was especially connected and easily related to his work because it dealt with the concept of writer’s block and the different causes for this constraint toward writing. Some of the student’s that he described as “blocked” had many rules that they had to live by such as having an introduction that grasped the attention of the audience, and having a complex plan in order to write a great paper, and I found this easily relatable because I too struggle with these ideas and sometimes it restricts from just letting my ideas flow. One person, in particular, I found to relate to me in various ways was Ruth, the undergraduate student that believed that the beginning paragraph is the first step in creating the outline of the essay. I find myself to think the same idea because sometimes I get stuck with just the opening line of my introduction thinking that it has to be something interesting.
ReplyDeleteSome of the questions that I would ask him are do you believe that there should be another method that teachers should adopt when teaching students how to write essays? How would you specifically tell students how to write essays that don’t apply any rules or constrictions? Do you feel that your research accurately determined the reasons for a writer’s block? And why do you think that the non-block writers didn’t have the same effect on their writing as those who are considered blocked writers? In Rose’s argument he states that life is not based on rules that are algorithms but rather rules that are heuristic. He poses this idea as a solution for blocked writers to apply when writing essays. His argument that he poses seemed to work based on the description that he discussed in the end of his experiment but failed to work on Sylvia since she needed more instructional advice. He also begins to analyze the difference between Flower and Hayes and his experiment and states how in their experiment the students needed more rules and plans, and how these rules can influence a person’s writing style.
If I had the privilege to Tierney and Pearson it would be life changing. I found their research fascinating regarding the connection between reading and writing as a composing process. They showed people a better way to read and analyze text. They explained how a good reading doesn’t necessarily have to do with being able to read it and comprehending it. But a good reader is able to analyze the author’s motive. In the article, they said the reader should plan, draft, align, revise, and monitor. They go the same of the writer. If both the reader and writer think the same way then it will be easier for them to make a connection and understand what they are reading. When I read something that I can relate to what the author is talking about than it’s easier for me to understand where he is coming from. It’s always good to think about where the author is coming from in an article you know what is really going on behind the text. Every reader is always going to have his/her opinion, so that’s why it’s the author’s purpose to change the mind or relate with its readers.
ReplyDeleteIf I meat them I would have so many questions to ask them. The first question would be how to relate this to different types of reading, such as books and stories. I know for situations like this you mind starts to wander freely and imagine how things play out, but if they had any tips on how to be a better reader. Another question would be how to relate to something that you don’t find interesting. I know most readers tend to lose focus on something that doesn’t grab their attention.
I find it interesting how a study done many years ago can still be related to this day. This helped me analyze all the reading I’ve done since reading the article. I know look it from different angles.
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Given the opportunity to converse with Mike Rose I would use the opportunity to ask him, as an English education major, how his article can be more directly applied in high school writing. I would ask him how he would go about teaching such abstract theories. It is evident that rigid rules and inflexible plans block writing skills, but how is a teacher supposed to teach without rules? Would one merely suggest rules and plans, but need not enforce them? The concept of teaching students how to write without stressing the necessity of rules is very puzzling to me, since much of teaching in English (and most other subjects as well) is centered around rules. I would ask him if he were a teacher how he would go about helping young writers unleash their creativity and teach their own selves writing.
ReplyDeleteI feel these questions would be very important at a time where a "revolution" is occurring in the field of education. Well known orators such as Ken Robinson are preaching very passionately the necessity not to just change the current education system, but to make a completely new one. These ideas are being discussed in my own education classes (the bitter irony is that my education class teaches in the exact way revolutionaries of education would hate). I would ask for Rose's opinions on English education as it was when he published Rigid Rules, Inflexible Plans, and the Stifling of Language, and as it is today. I think we would both agree that the education of writers has not changed much. I myself have experienced the same rigid rules discussed in Rose's article: the need for an interesting hook, the need for 100% grammatically correct sentences, and so on. I wonder if Rose would agree with the revolutionaries of education and agree that students should teach themselves and let their writing abilities manifest by themselves, or if he would encourage teachers to show their students skills to make their writing abilities better honed.
Lastly I would ask to talk about Rose's own literary experiences. Did he too struggle with rigid rules and inflexible plans? Did Rose get those rules and plans from his teachers? Did he use those rigid rules in papers for his teachers and get good grades but not exactly writing to his potential? Or did he ignore those rules despite his teachers and write excellently? I would ask him how he overcame rigid rules and plans, or how a teacher helped him overcome them, so I could in turn give these good writing skills to my future students.
Sorry its so late. again.